Inspired by “podcast bros” and “bro culture”, this creative piece riffs off podcast dialogue to hold up a mirror to “the manosphere”.
Michael: Hello, returning listeners, and a special welcome to any new listeners who discovered us after last week’s segment! You’re listening to The Game Plan with Michael –
Josh: – and Josh…
Michael: …where we talk all things self-help, success, and unlocking your ultimate entrepreneurial potential. But today’s episode is a bit of a different one, and not just by popular demand –
Josh: [Laughs] “Popular demand” is one way to put it. Let’s just say there was, uh, some constructive feedback from last week’s episode.
Michael: Constructive? Josh, you almost got us cancelled!
[Both laugh]
Josh: Right, well, in the spirit of accountability and growth, and keeping true to the theme of our podcast, we are dedicating this episode to addressing last week’s havoc. For those of you who missed the episode, here’s what went down. Last week, during an episode on negotiating business deals, we got on to the topic of equal pay and females in top corporate roles, and I may have allegedly misspoken about a few things that I…uh –
Michael: Alright, since you’re going to beat around the bush, I’ll quote you, Josh. You said: “The pay gap is bullshit. Work hard, get paid – end of story.”
Josh: Yes, okay, thanks for the reminder, bud. I’ll admit, poorly worded, and maybe slightly out of touch, but that’s why we’re here today: to set the record straight with our guest, Amelia Garcia, a self-made entrepreneur, keynote speaker, and bestselling author of Why We’re Still Fighting for Equal Pay in the 21st Century. Amelia, welcome to the show! It’s awesome to have you here – we’ve been looking forward to this.
Amelia: Hi, hello, thank you both for having me on. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Michael: Thank you for coming, but before we dive into the juicy topics, can you give the listeners a little background on who you are and what the feminist movement means to you?
Amelia: Absolutely! So, a little about me. I’m Amelia Garcia, and I’m a feminist activist, entrepreneur, and author. I was born and raised here in the US, but my parents immigrated from Guatemala, so I grew up watching them navigate life in a country that constantly threw challenges and hurdles at them. That really shaped me, especially as a woman of colour. I started my first business when I was 22, and I’ll be honest, breaking into certain spaces as a young, Latina woman was definitely… an experience. For me, feminism is about justice, equity, and making sure everyone – regardless of gender – has access to the same opportunities. And, spoiler alert, it’s not about ‘hating men’.
[All three laugh]
Josh: Well I assume you didn’t take very well to my comment last week huh?
Amelia: To be honest, your comment reflects a perspective that a lot of people hold, and it comes down to a misunderstanding of how the workforce actually operates. So, let’s talk facts. The gender pay gap isn’t a myth – it’s real, and it’s measurable. On average, women in the US earn about 82 cents for every dollar a man earns. But that’s just the headline. When you break it down by race, for example, Black women earn about 65 cents, and Latina women earn around 60 cents – my mother being testament to that. And it’s not just about ‘working hard’ – women often face barriers like being steered into lower-paying industries, being overlooked for promotions, and being penalised for negotiating salaries in ways that men typically aren’t.
Josh: But it’s obvious why women aren’t seeking out employment or starting their own businesses. Take my wife for example, she would take staying home, driving the kids to school, cooking and running the home over working any day of the week. And that dynamic works for us: I make the money, and she spends it.
[Josh and Michael both laugh]
Amelia: Great, that works for you, but we’re not just talking about personal choices. We’re talking about a broader systemic issue that affects millions of women who don’t have the luxury of choosing between staying at home or running a business. Not every woman has the financial stability or support to stay at home, and not every woman wants to. In 2016, the International Labour Organisation and Gallup collaborated to ask women across the globe if they preferred to work in paid jobs, care for their families, or do both. The data showed that 70% of women prefer to work in paid jobs.
[The podcast pauses for a commercial break]
Michael: Hey guys… it’s Michael from the future. Sorry to leave you on a cliffhanger, but let’s take a quick break to thank today’s sponsor: Alpha Power Protein Shakes!
Josh: Men, are you ready to crush your goals, hit the gym, and build a life of wealth and success? Try Alpha Power Protein Shakes; with six flavours to choose from, they’re packed with 30 grams of protein per serving to fuel the alpha in you.
Michael: Use code GAMEPLAN10 for 10% off your first order. Now, back to the show!
[Podcast resumes]
Josh: So you said 70% of women worldwide prefer paid jobs. But does it really mean there’s this massive systemic problem? I mean, isn’t it just about people making different choices?
Amelia: When we talk about women ‘choosing’ to stay out of the workforce, we have to ask: are they really choosing or are they making a sacrifice? A lot of women want careers because they’re passionate about what they do and want to make an impact. The problem is, even when they choose to work, they face these challenges that make it harder for them to get far and be successful.
Josh: You speak of challenges, but what challenges do women realistically face? Like yeah, okay, women want careers now, so why are they not going after it? They’re just not hungry enough! They don’t want it that bad!
Amelia: Oo, that one might get you cancelled two times over.
Josh: Well, I’m sorry, but someone’s gotta say it. It’s not sexist, and it’s not my fault everyone is so soft.
[Michael glances over at Josh with a slight frown]
Michael: I think… what Josh is trying to say is, because women have the natural inclination to be home makers and mothers, they may be slightly more hesitant to – I don’t know – um, chase after a job?
Amelia: Okay um, a lot to unpack here. So, first of all, I don’t think that was what Josh was trying to say at all, but nice attempt at a save! Secondly, this so-called ‘natural inclination’ is a dangerous stereotype that we keep feeding society into, almost brainwashing women that this is what they have to feel. But can I just ask, why do you think they have this ‘natural inclination’?
[Momentary silence]
Josh: Well… they’re women.
Amelia: Right, Because they’re women? So, do you think it’s every woman’s dream to be a home maker and a mother?
Michael: Well, I mean no? Yeah, no!
Josh: [under his breath] It should be
Michael: But there’s nothing wrong with those traditional roles
Amelia: You’re right, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it, if you choose it. If the opportunity allows, a woman is well within her rights to choose to stay home and not have a career. In the same breath, a woman is well within her rights to choose to work. The issue here is that, when she does choose to pursue a career or start a business or become a successful entrepreneur, all the odds are against her.
Michael: It’s funny because you see successful women like Sara Blakely, or Diane Hendricks, or Alice Walton. It’s not like women are up against an impossible battle.
Amelia: Well Michael, what’s one thing all those women have in common?
Josh: Oh come on, Oprah? Rihanna? Sheila Johnson?
Amelia: Yes, true, but the reality is that the number of white women who reach that level of success is disproportionately higher than the number of Black or Latina women. For every Oprah or Rihanna, there are countless women of colour who face barriers that white women don’t. Things like biases in hiring, lack of access to funding for businesses, and systemic racism create these obstacles and they simply drive women to not even bother trying. Let me give you an example: less than 1% of venture capital funding goes to Black women entrepreneurs, and if that’s not bad enough, listen to this: studies show that resumes with names that sound ethnically Black are less likely to get callbacks, even when the qualifications are identical, or even better than their male counterparts or white female counterparts. And I’m glad you brought up Oprah and Rihanna – let’s talk about Hollywood. Women in Tinseltown make up only a small part of the workforce. According to a 2022 UCLA study, women make up less than 22% of directors and only 33% of film writers. And if a woman is directing a film, it’s usually not a big-budget one. Those 20 million dollar films? Yeah, they’re almost always handed to white men.
Josh: I’m just gonna address the elephant in the room here – have we considered that maybe the men are just more talented, hardworking and driven? I mean, is that such a crime?
Amelia: No, it’s not a crime – it’s just wrong. Women consistently outperform men in education, earning more degrees at every level, yet, they’re still underrepresented in leadership roles across every industry. It’s not about talent, women have the talent, they just don’t have the privilege that men do.
Josh: So what, women need handouts now?
Amelia: No, Josh, women don’t need handouts – they need a level playing field. And frankly, your superiority complex is part of the problem. Instead of acknowledging these issues that, believe it or not, affect you by extension of your daughters, wife and mother, you just dismiss them. It’s lazy and predictable.
Josh: [Smirking] Predictable, huh?
Amelia: Yeah, predictable. The same tired narrative from men who are too scared to admit that equality doesn’t threaten them.
Michael: Right, coffee break?
[Microphones click off. Guest and hosts disperse]
[Josh pulls Michael to the side and they whisper]
Josh: Bro, what the f*ck! This chick was meant to come on and answer our questions not f*cking raise her voice.
Michael: It’ll make good press, just go with it.
[Podcast resumes]
Amelia: As successful businessmen, I’m assuming you’re familiar with venture capital funding. Correct?
Michael: Yes
Josh: Of course – you can’t really set up a business without it!
Amelia: Exactly! Well, take a wild guess as to how much of venture capital funding goes to women.
Michael: I don’t know, like… 42 per cent?
Josh: Ditto
Amelia: 2 per cent. 2 percent of venture capital funding goes to women. 2 per cent. Let that sink in
Josh: Impossible
Michael: Yeah there’s no way
Amelia: Yep, so look around you. Look at all this podcast equipment, look at the software you’re using, the clothes you’re wearing, look at that massive protein tub you’ve got on display. I can guarantee you the very large majority of those were made because of venture capital funding, and by extension, most likely made by men. This isn’t because women just didn’t come up with the ideas, it’s because the likelihood of men receiving the venture capital funding to execute their ideas is astronomically higher than it is for women. And if you don’t think that’s bad, and if you think this has nothing to do with women simply existing as women, a recent report showed how male-owned companies raised on average 5.9 times more venture capital funding than their female counterparts. Same industries, similar business plans, same motivation and drive, but vastly different outcomes.
Josh: Maybe the men just have better ideas. And, if anything, women should use this to work harder and push past the barrier; that’ll make it so much more rewarding if they’re eventually successful.
Amelia: So you and I Josh, we’re successful business people right? We’ve both started our own businesses, we’ve worked hard, we’ve made sacrifices et cetera, the whole shebang. Would you say your ideas are better than mine?
Josh: Uh… I- well-
Michael: Wow! In the 17 years that I’ve known Josh, I have never seen him this speechless. You might have just broken a record.
[Amelia and Michael chuckle]
Josh: Well she’s just made it personal. We’re not representing the issue.
Amelia: Josh, the very fact you are a white, straight man puts you at the very centre of this issue.
Josh: [Rolls his eyes and in a dragged tone] Here we go again, the whole I’m a white man, I’m privileged, I get whatever I want story… blah blah blah.
Amelia: I’m glad you’re getting it, good job!
Josh: Wha-
Amelia: About 15 years ago, two of my male friends decided to start a project management software company for the construction industry; they sought to add me as their cofounder for my experience in software engineering. At this point, I had two seven-figure businesses, multiple bestselling books and an industry-leading consulting firm, advising Fortune 500 companies on scaling operations. I knew what I was doing, I had the qualifications, I had the experience and, shocker, I had the drive. When my two male co-founders decided to start the company with me, their chances of raising funding for that business suddenly decreased by 83.5 per cent, simply by adding me as a co-founder.
Josh: Damn. Well how do you know that’s because you’re a woman? It could have been anything.
Amelia: ‘Could have been anything’ involves having no experience in entrepreneurship, an unconvincing business idea, unrealistic valuations and the list goes on. We had the expertise, and the market had a gap. Now ask me again if you think it could have been anything else.
[Michael glances over at the digital clock]
Michael: Well, Amelia, I think it’s safe to say we’ve learned a lot today, and even, unlearned a few things too. Cough, Josh, Cough
Josh: Yep, guilty!
Amelia: Well, I guess that’s half the battle: owning up and being willing to learn. And I think it’s important to keep in mind that feminism isn’t just a movement that makes waves after an isolated incident, or an occasional outrage. It’s a movement that requires us to dismantle the bricks that form the foundation of our society, and rebuild them in a way that creates greater fairness, equality and opportunity. The feminist issue isn’t just a woman’s issue, it’s a human issue – and the quicker we are to understand that, the quicker we are able to re-write equality into our systems.
Michael: That’s sort of the big picture I guess. And it’s what we preach here on The Game Plan, you know, creating systems rather than succumbing to them.
Amelia: And the value of that depends on the system you’re talking about.
Michael: Well, that’s all we have time for today folks. Amelia, thanks for joining us, and listeners, keep the conversation going. We’ll be back next week with a segment on habits of the world’s most successful men.
Josh: [Laughs] And who knows maybe we’ll have time to throw in a little segment on habits of the world’s most successful women too. Till next time.
This fictional piece by Panayiota Andreou was originally written as a response to one of the themes of the Writing Human Rights module at the University of Warwick.
